Building Value-Driven Businesses with Maria Kingery

Maria Kingery:
We want our people to grow professionally, right? And there’s lots of different ways that we support that through trainings and things like that. As important, we want people to grow as humans.

Benn Marine:
Welcome to Responsibly Different, brought to you by Campfire Consulting. In this space, we kindle the stories, insights, and dialogues at the heart of conscious consumerism and impactful business practices. Each episode is a journey into the essence of making decisions and investments that nurture positive change. Join our impact strategist, Brittany Angelo, as she dives into the narratives of leaders and visionaries who are reshaping what it means to live and work with intention and purpose.

Brittany Angelo:
Today, we have the pleasure of speaking with Maria Kingrey, a trailblazer in the sustainability space. Maria is a strategic business guide and leadership coach at 360 Impact, where she helps organizations align their values with their actions, unleashing their potential to serve the world more powerfully. She co-founded Southern Energy Management in 2001, pioneering the residential energy efficiency in solar industries in North Carolina. Under her leadership, SEM became one of the first 250 certified B corporations, demonstrating a commitment to using business as a force for good. This year, her team is celebrating a big milestone, but you will have to listen to the episode to hear more on that. Maria’s journey from the solar industry to becoming a professional implementer is inspiring. Through her diverse experiences, she creates custom solutions to help companies build prosperous futures. In our conversation, we dive into the challenges of integrating sustainability into business operations, the evolving landscape of sustainable energy, and the invaluable lessons Maria has learned from her extensive career. Excited that you are all here with us to explore how Maria is making a significant impact on the world through her innovative work at 360 Impact in Southern Energy Management. Welcome, everybody, to the Responsibly Different podcast. I am so excited that you all could join us today and for our conversation with Maria. Welcome, Maria.

Maria Kingery:
Thank you so much, Brittany. I’m excited to be here with you this morning.

Brittany Angelo:
Yeah, I feel like over the, I don’t know, we’ll say like the last five years, we’ve kind of run in similar circles with renewable energy backgrounds and amicus partnerships. But I feel like also last fall with the BLD Southeast, it was so excited to reconnect with you about B Corps and now to have you on the podcast. So I feel like to introduce you to our audience. I would love for you maybe to just start off sharing a little bit about the two different companies that you’re a part of, 360 Impact and then Southern Energy Management.

Maria Kingery:
Certainly. So Southern Energy Management is a solar and green building company that my husband and I started based in Raleigh, North Carolina, in 2001. So we are celebrating our 23rd anniversary and we’re actually having a party. My marketing team just let me know we’re having a party in November to celebrate our 15th year as a certified V Corporation. That’s so exciting. Yeah, so I think that’s really cool that they want to celebrate that and we certainly want to celebrate that. And then my other company where I spend most of my time is 360 Impact. And in that company, basically, I worked myself out of a day to day job at Southern Energy Management. And we’ve got a great team. that runs that business day to day. And so my role really shifted to be more an advisor and a coach to the leaders there. And it wasn’t, you know, one enough for me. I needed something else to do with my time. So I decided about seven years ago that I wanted to help other purpose driven companies to not have to put out so many fires all the time. That’s what entrepreneurship feels like a lot of times, or at least it did for me and I see that. So I work coaching other companies to help them do their work better.

Brittany Angelo:
So cool. And so cool that you, I love that you like phrase it as like you worked yourself out of a job because yeah, that’s so unique in today’s world where people do that. So I guess, can you speak a little bit more to like, what was the path that you saw or that you took in How do you recommend other people doing this if you believe in it so much?

Maria Kingery:
Yeah, I am a firm believer. I heard and I don’t know who to attribute this to who said this initially, but like I remember someone said once you’re not a leader until you’ve created another leader. And I reflected on that and I actually like would extend it like real leadership is about creating leaders that are able to create other leaders. And so at our company, one of the things, of course, over the last 23 years, we’ve had many, you know, many stops on the entrepreneurial merry-go-round, but about 12 years ago, we found this whole concept of a business operating system. and creating a method of creating structure and a method of being able to really get clarity on accountabilities. And the frame that I use is like, our operating system is designed to help us do three things well continuously. And that’s connect both with each other, with the company, with our communities, with our products, commit like make really strong commitments and then on the back end celebrate right and figure when we’re successful wonderful yay when we haven’t been so successful what happened and what can we learn from it so it’s been you know i guess i’ve well over a decade that i’ve been a student i would call myself of these different there’s a bunch of different operating systems out there the one that we used for quite some time was the Entrepreneurial Operating System, EOS. A lot of people are familiar with that. And there’s scaling and there’s tons of them. But ultimately, it’s about putting the right structure in place so that your team can be successful together. And there’s lots of different elements. But working myself out of a job, You know, again, for me, leadership is about growing other leaders. And one of the biggest things that I watch entrepreneurial leaders do, especially founders, right, is one mistake that can be made is sticking around too long, like not recognizing either when And for me, I don’t think it was necessarily the business that outgrown me because I’m a lifelong learner and I want to continue, but the business needed, I needed to allow space for other leaders to, to step in and step up and take company and direction that I would never have dreamed of.

Brittany Angelo:
What’s that like, like watching a company that you did start? And it sounds like maybe it changed direction for the better, but what was it like watching a company change that you started and maybe go in a direction that you wouldn’t have took it in?

Maria Kingery:
Yeah, well, like I said, I mean, there have been a lot of stops on the journey and some of them are, you know, pauses. Sometimes you recognize and sometimes you don’t. But we have experienced like many, like any business, I think that’s been been around as long as we have. We’ve had some really tough lessons and some very close calls in terms of, you know, we had a near extinction event is how I refer to it in 2011 and 2012. And I think a lot of a lot of businesses have similar experiences, right? You think it’s just going to be, oh, we’re going to do this. And I’ve got this beautiful vision of where we’re going. And then reality hits and being able to be responsive to the opportunities that are out there. And also, of course, correct when what you’re doing, you know, two years ago doesn’t work anymore. You know, we both green building and solar both emerging type of industries. And certainly in 2001, right, there was very, you couldn’t even call it an industry. It was like a little club of people who are interested in such things. And watching it evolve and change and become what it is, what it can be has been I would say one of the greatest joys of my life. I had, I had, um, the realization not long ago, maybe two or three months ago when I was sitting around with our current leadership team and I was facilitating our quarterly planning session. And I realized every one of them, except for one person, uh, every one of them had started an entry level position at our company. Wow. and like field techs, right? Solar installers. Yeah. And answering the phones. And like these folks are, you know, which is my huge plug for having an operating system concept where this is how we do our work together. And then it’s, it sets them free to be able to meet the, needs of our customers and very interesting and flexible ways. I would say being responsive to the marketplace and opportunities. It’s fun. Yeah, it’s fun. And they’re doing it. You know, I don’t want to sound like matriarchal or patriarchal about it, but I definitely have a certain sense of like, wow, that’s pretty freaking cool.

Brittany Angelo:
Yeah. Yeah, no, I can see that. I can hear just in how you’re talking about it. You are proud of it. So that’s cool.

Maria Kingery:
Well, it’s about them, right? Right. It has nothing to do with me.

Brittany Angelo:
Right, but helping them grow into these leaders that they’re born to be and helping support them and giving them the space to grow and improve and promoting from within I think is like something that a lot of companies don’t often do or don’t appreciate as much as you know, the B Corp assessment is like trying to get companies to care about. I think that’s something that I really appreciate that B Corps do emphasize as much as they do. So it’s cool to see you talk about SEM doing that really well.

Maria Kingery:
Yeah. Well, the other thing that I think is really important and I don’t think we did this as well early on, is making sure that we do have that infrastructure in place for them to thrive within and have, you know, the way we structure our business, you know, them running their own budgets, them, and all of our leaders are still in like ongoing leadership development programs because In my experience, you’re never done.

Brittany Angelo:
Darn it. There’s always new lessons to learn, right? Darn it. Yeah. All right. I don’t totally know how to change this topic other than saying, let’s completely change topics. I want to talk about the idea of sustainable leadership. I think before we totally get into the idea of sustainable of like, Well, let’s talk about like maybe what it looks like and what it means to be sustainable in your leadership. So can you just share what sustainable leadership means to you and what it looks like?

Maria Kingery:
Yeah, I’d love to. And again, this is one of those things, Brittany, I imagine if you asked, you know, 100 people, you’d get 100 different answers. Yeah. And I think that actually the conversation that we were just having It really is. I mean, when I think about sustainable leadership, I think about a continuous or a continual growth process that supports, you know, every person who comes to work at Southern Energy Management and then every leadership team that I work with in 360 Impact, I say the same thing. We want our people to grow professionally, right? And there’s lots of different ways that we support that through trainings and things like that. As important, we want people to grow as humans, right? We want them to grow personally. We want them to have, like for me, sustainable leadership is not just about the time that you spend doing your roles and accountabilities on the job. but it’s about how are you actually leading in other areas in your life. And, and leading to me is not as, you know, as we talked about already, leading to me is not about being the one to make all the decisions and make all the calls. And, you know, certainly that’s a piece of it, but it’s really more about, um, framing a environment that enables other people to grow and the communities around us to thrive and the environment to be centered as well as opposed to something to be used.

Brittany Angelo:
When you’re doing these coaching impact-driven models with groups through 360 Impact, Are these like the principles that you’re talking about with your clients? Or like, what does that client relationship, I guess, look like?

Maria Kingery:
Well, yeah, I mean, with all of my clients, I always start out with this concept of connect, commit, celebrate. And again, and I’m playing around with it still. It’s not like fully, I would say fully baked. Right. But I’m referring to it currently as the cycle of code creation. Right. So because as leaders, I mean, one way to lead is to just do everything yourself. Right. And, you know, you’re this great charismatic, creative leader. But for me, I think the much more powerful thing is to co-create. And it involves putting infrastructure again into organizations. And some of it’s really tactical. It’s like, how do you have a productive meeting where you’re actually solving problems instead of, I mean, I’m embarrassed to imagine how many meetings I ran where we had lots of lovely, lively conversations, but like nothing happened, right? And so, and also clarity, like there’s obviously the pieces of putting a vision that is very clear core values are like, really, really important in terms of what are the behaviors that we are going to commit to? And then then the execution plans, like what are we going to do? You know, this 90 days this year, in order to work towards that goal. So it’s, it’s, It’s at once a lot of tactical tools and frameworks that are very well established and used, again, many, many different types of operating systems. And it’s also like, how do we grow as people? So that’s really the focus. And I say, the term operating system is pretty well known. the entrepreneur world and I said, we’re going to create your operating system, right? We’re not doing EOS, we’re not doing scaling, you know, we’re not doing a formal program, but we’re looking at what you need as an organization and most of them need a lot of the similar thing. So.

Brittany Angelo:
I do really, yes, I’m appreciating a lot of what you’re saying and I just think I’m going to harp on it again. I know I already said it, but I just think it’s so cool that you’re incorporating each individual person into this projection lesson plan path to improving and I think it’s really cool that you’re taking into account like each person is different and each plan is going to look different for them. And it’s not just like success for the business, it’s success for each individual person. So, I’m really, I’m enjoying hearing you say that.

Maria Kingery:
Well, I appreciate you picking up on that because that’s really the whole, that’s the reason for 360 Impact, right? Because it is, it’s about the totality of the organization, which organizations are made up of individuals. Right. But it’s it’s it’s about both.

Brittany Angelo:
And yeah. Yeah. So I’m curious, like, what are some of the challenges that you’re seeing with these impact driven businesses when they’re talking about integrating sustainability into their core operations?

Maria Kingery:
Yeah. You know, I think that, so I am most well-known, I have the most contacts in the solar and green building industries, and I would say that the consistent challenge that solar companies in particular have is the vagarities of the market, right? Like, the market changes so quickly. and policy changes. Oh, and by the way, we’re basically a relatively low margin construction business. So balancing, you know, Bart Houlihan, the founder of B-Lab sat in front of my desk during SCM’s near-death experience and said, Maria, no money, no mission. And I’ve, you know, So balancing, you know, that time and other times in our business as well, we’ve had to make, in the businesses I work with, sometimes you have to make really tough calls for the greater good of the organization, like particularly when it comes to people, right? That’s very, very hard to do. And whether it’s, yeah, it’s just balancing what, and for me personally, I’ll share like, balancing what I want to be able to provide for our people and what is actually fiscally possible.

Brittany Angelo:
Like understanding your limits? Yeah.

Maria Kingery:
And well, I mean, look, we’re for-profit businesses. We’re not non-profits, at least not intentionally, right? So, so we have to, you know, and I remember a friend of mine said early on, you know, tell everybody, go listen about, you know, this new way of doing business, using business as a force for good. And I remember, I mean, this really beautiful, intelligent woman that I love looked at me and she was like, Maria, one bottom line is hard enough. And you want me to do three? Right.

Brittany Angelo:
Right. So. Yes, that’s really interesting. I think sometimes when I find myself repeating in the B Corp space is like so many of us are are fighting to give back to the planet and to give back to our people. And specifically with it, I feel like maybe just because I’m super involved in it, but with the 1% for the planet memberships, like so many B Corps are now giving 1% of their revenue back to the planet with that certification. And it’s like, Well, don’t forget, you also have to be a profitable company for you to still exist. I think sometimes we all get, and myself included, we get caught up in this idea of always having to give back to the planet and always protecting our people and our communities in whatever way that looks like, that we forget that the company has to be profitable to still be existing.

Maria Kingery:
Well, that that has to be the first bottom line, right? Because you don’t we don’t get to do any of that other cool stuff. Yeah, that’s why again, like when I coach teams, it is about finding that balance. And really primarily about how do we run a great, profitable business. Then we have these all these options of things that we can do.

Brittany Angelo:
Hmm. I think I think these are kind of like the main reasons of why I could probably never be a founder, an entrepreneur of my own company, because I always am like thinking about the planet a lot and people in community a lot. And I think I often put those two legs of the stools longer than profit. So my stool would not stand.

Maria Kingery:
Well, I mean, and that’s the I like how you put that. I mean, the point is to balance and again this sort of also fits into the 360 concept it’s in order to balance the the goal is to balance all three and it’s absolutely doable right um the the planet needs a lot of help right and i would say that that is really the core of why I’m so passionate about this work, you know, comes from growing up and, you know, in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia and just how beautiful and still in awe of it. And to think that the only way or the primary way of making money has been to, you know, use our resources in irresponsible ways. Even as I get to enjoy those things, like it’s just being able to contribute to something that I feel like is making a positive impact. Even at the same time, while I’m an American, you know, alive in 2024, just my very existence, right? has a negative impact on the planet, but like trying to balance that out. And then on the people side, you know, happy people. I mean, happy is a big word. But I believe people who are growing. And that’s my goal with both our team and my clients, people that are growing and staying curious and getting better. Create better companies. outcome, you know, better results.

Brittany Angelo:
I appreciate that you actually went back and thought about the word happy because I do think there’s two different ways to kind of like measure employee satisfaction and like employees can be happy but are they growing and are they expanding and are they challenged in their role in Employee satisfaction can mean so many different things, so that was cool to kind of hear you say that. It’s not just happy, it’s actually, it’s growing, and growing was a really great word, I thought.

Maria Kingery:
Good, yeah. I mean, yeah, because we can be happy. I mean, we do have one of our core values in SEM is enjoy the journey. And we take that really seriously, you know, and that’s part of that celebrate, create piece where we really do want to stop along the way and not just grind all the time, right? Now, we work really hard and I think about our solar crews, you know, up on the roof and 100 degree weather, right? I mean, that’s serious, like body intensive and maybe we can help them to grow as humans along the way and not just grow their muscles, right, but grow their capacity, dare I say love, grow their capacity for loving. And I’ve seen, I’ve witnessed some amazing conversations between some of our field teams that. And again, not anything that I take credit for, But when you intentionally design, and again, it really does come back to me, to your core values and how you translate them into specific behaviors that you want to see, and you set the expectation, this is how we’re going to be together. This is how we’re going to conduct our work. Amazing things happen.

Brittany Angelo:
And so I do have to say that I feel like so much of, um, of what we’re talking about right now is actually having to do with like fostering, like the culture of sustainability and social responsibility in, in this idea of like within an organization, having these, rules, I’m saying, like in quotations, like rules of how you show up and how you engage with coworkers. So I guess, can you talk about a little bit of like, what’s the strategies that you use for helping companies foster that type of a culture?

Maria Kingery:
Yeah, I mean, they’re called core values for a reason, right? And they really are done well, they really do become the foundational, the foundational tool for building and growing a great team. And the important every every organization has slightly different values. But it’s interesting. I was working with a client recently and they had like one of their values was distributed decision making. And I was like, well, that’s that is something that you value. and we value as an organization. But like, how am I supposed to actually behave? Was my question. And I don’t think we’ve come to an answer to that yet. But it was this interesting moment where I realized core values in this context are not about really what you care about necessarily, as it is how you’re going to show up. And so I always tell, I always advise clients to have a verb in a core value. If a core value doesn’t have a verb, then I don’t quite know what I’m supposed to do. Right. So seek solutions, for example, is SEM’s first core value. And I mean, I hear people talking about that all the time. And you know, when somebody has a mindset of seeking solutions as opposed to someone who has a mindset of seeing, you know, all the things that are wrong and not working collaboratively to solve them. So that’s an example. Is that helpful?

Brittany Angelo:
Yeah. No, it is. It is. And I think I think this like idea of companies having a mission and then having a vision and then adding on that with your core values is extremely helpful for really showcasing that your company cares about that culture and how the employees show up every single day. I often talk to my mom about how business has changed from when she was growing up to how I now look at business and she’s like, Brit, no, nobody talks about core values. I was like, okay, well, in my world, which is surrounded by B Corps, I’m like, everybody talks about core values. I would love to get to a world where every company kind of operates like a B Corp. Maybe they aren’t B Corps, but I would love to get to a world where they operate like B Corps. And I think the thing that I really appreciate is this idea that like B Corps do have that culture of how you show up and how you act and how you respect, appreciate, work with your colleagues. And everything that you’re saying in core values kind of like kind of connects to that. So, yeah, I think your example is great.

Maria Kingery:
Yeah, and that’s sort of the basis, right, for the cultural side. And then I also work with companies to create an impact scorecard, right? So it’s not just now, obviously, like the B impact assessment, which a number of my clients are certified B Corp. So like, that’s the grand, you know, huge scorecard of all scorecards, you know, sustainable business. And I encourage my clients to look at what are the areas of impact that you want to influence and set goals around those as well. Financial targets are one thing, right? We have to be profitable and we have to operate a well-run business. And alongside those, what are the impacts that you’re measuring to demonstrate to your team, to your stakeholders that you’re actually creating the impact that you intend. Yeah. Yeah. Because it’s one thing to say, oh, you know, we want to save the planet. It’s another thing to say, well, actually we’re doing that by helping our clients to avoid X tons of carbon per month or whatever it is.

Brittany Angelo:
Yeah, yeah. Well, because we’re talking so much about B Corps and I know that Southern Energy Management has been a B Corp for so long, I’m wondering what are some key insights or lessons that you’ve learned about using business as a force for good that has helped you?

Maria Kingery:
I think the biggest thing that has helped me, Brittany, is again, during those moments in time where our business was struggling for one reason or another. And businesses, by the way, can struggle with explosive growth as much as they can with, you know, policy, you know, changes and everything else. So we’ve had plenty of struggles over the years. But I think during those times, having a grounding framework for this is how we uh, are going to operate our business. And there are certain principles that we’re not going to compromise. It’s like, here’s, here’s the things that we are committed to and we’re committed to doing business in a way that, uh, has many net positives. I mean, I have people argue with me all the time. We’ll just. When you have a business and you employ people like that’s positive. That’s that’s. You know, I would debate that if you’re if your business is an extractive, polluting technology, is that really a net positive? I don’t care how many thousands of people you employ. It is also like that’s the tricky riddle that we all have is like, how do we transition our economy. I mean, this whole business about transforming capitalism, this is no joke, right? I don’t know if I answered your question.

Brittany Angelo:
I think you did in your own way, which is what I loved about it. Um, so I know that you and I reconnected, um, at BLD Southeast, um, which is the B Corp Leadership Development Conference, um, in the Southeast. And I’m wondering from your perspective, because I know you’ve been in the B Corp community for, um, I think you said 15 years. What does the local B Corp community mean to you and how does that differ from being involved in the global movement of B Corps?

Maria Kingery:
It’s a very interesting moment for you to be asking me this question. So I do serve on our Be Local Triangle board. And our goal is to connect in like-minded businesses so that we can support each other, help each other sustain our organizations, ourselves as leaders, our B Corp commitments. And I do think that those, again, Connect, Commit, Celebrate, I do think that those connections are really important at the local level. I mean, I wouldn’t be a B Corp except for, you know, one of my, I mean, he’s not literally my neighbor, but he’s about 30 miles down the road, chased me down at a Net Impact Conference and said, you gotta be a B Corp. His name is Eric Henry with TS Designs, and he’s still a dear friend of mine. And there have been folks who have been certified B Corp for a long time. And then just last week, I had the opportunity to meet a woman who her company just became a B Corp like six months ago. And so being able for us to have a community of people who understand and appreciate some of the challenges that we have. And we’re doing business in a different way than the norm. And having that local and, you know, hopefully we buy from one another and we support one another. And then, you know, being part of something that is global is it’s a different proposition. But I think that is motivating. as well. But ultimately, the local is about human connection.

Brittany Angelo:
Yeah, I agree with that. I think you shared a lot of similarities to kind of like, I don’t know, I think this question is interesting because I think oftentimes I’m like, oh, well, I’m, you know, I’m a remote employee and like, Well, the Be Local movement to me means so much because often that’s the only time I’m leaving my house is when I’m in working, quote-unquote, like working. I’m going to Be Local events. I’m connecting with other B Corps that are in person in my network. The Local movement to me gives me that in-person connection that I don’t really get, but at the same time, it is so cool to talk to people specifically on this podcast, too, that are like in other countries and for them to describe their culture and how their culture accepts the B Corp movement. It’s just it’s I mean, it is a global movement and it’s it’s affecting businesses different in different cultures, in different countries. So that global movement has like really taught me a lot, which I appreciate. So, you know, different for a reason.

Maria Kingery:
Yes, well, I’m curious what you think is the main thing that you learned from the global movement.

Brittany Angelo:
I did interview on this podcast, it was a tourism company and I’m blanking on their name right now, but they shared with me that when they’re planning trips for people to visit different areas of their country, you don’t have to look specifically for B Corps to work with for the tour operators because so many, okay, sorry, let me go get him. So this tourism company was sharing that when you’re looking to book tours to different areas in their region and you’re trying to go and explore different areas, you don’t necessarily have to look for B Corps to book your tours with because they have a local movement that protects all tour guides, I guess I’ll call them, that make sure that no matter, it’s almost like they unionized the tours in this region, in this country, because so many people were taking advantage of cheap prices and getting tourists to book with them that way. The country, the region was like, no, we’re actually going to mandate that you have to have this, this has to be your minimum price and you have to have a small group size that goes on tours. Again, it’s not like that you had to be a B Corp and you didn’t have to follow the B Corp principles, but they almost as a region developed this culture of similar ways to B Corps where it was like protecting their land and their culture and their people. It’s just interesting to see that sometimes there are countries that are further along than the U.S. And I think sometimes we often think like, oh, the U.S. is a leader. And it’s like, well, that’s not always true, like not in everything.

Maria Kingery:
So we have a lot to learn from other. I mean, particularly some of the European countries, Australia, I mean, agreed. I mean, there are places in the world that are much farther along and in some of these topics.

Brittany Angelo:
I mean, you’ll appreciate this one being in the renewable energy space, but on my most recent trip, I mean, there were electric vehicles everywhere. Almost every single car was a plug-in hybrid. And I saw more electric vehicle chargers than I saw gas stations. So, yeah, to that same point, we have a lot to learn from some of these European countries for sure.

Maria Kingery:
Yeah. Well, it’s coming.

Brittany Angelo:
It’s coming. So I think my last question for you is it rooted in this idea of leaving our audience with maybe some actionable steps that they could take. So what are some actual steps that businesses, regardless of size, can take to start to strengthen their journey towards becoming a more sustainable and socially responsible company?

Maria Kingery:
So I think what I would I mean, there’s lots of tactical things that I would say, you know, you know, making sure that you have clear accountabilities in your organization and that you’re clear about the results that you want to create and core values and meetings, all that good stuff, right? So basically you get an operating system for yourself, which by the way, uh, also works and your personal life. I just helped a young lady, uh, who was graduating from college, uh, think about, you know, what she wanted to create in terms of the structure. So creating it, being intentional about creating structure that supports the future that you want to create is the big sort of overarching piece action I would encourage people to take. And then, you know, connecting to folks who’ve, who’ve walked the path, and learning from others what’s been successful. As importantly, if not more importantly, where did you stumble? What didn’t work? What have been some of your bigger challenges and really becoming a student of the game? I love that. And that’s the other thing, like, gosh, man, this whole saving the world business is so serious, right? We’re so serious about it. And, you know, I think we really do need to interject some, which is one of the things that’s so great about, you know, getting the communities together. That celebration piece is so important. Look how far we’ve come. Yeah.

Brittany Angelo:
Look how far we’ve come. 15 years as a B Corp. Look how far you’ve come. That’s so exciting.

Maria Kingery:
I mean, there were 250 B Corps when we started. And I mean, now, I did think at the time, I was like, well, this is just going to be how business gets done in 10 years. And, you know, unfortunately, I was a little optimistic. And look how far we’ve come. Yeah, yeah. And it’s part of the conversation now to the point that people are criticizing it. You know, great. Of course they are. Right, right. So that’s the other technical thing, like don’t like really, when you’re doing important work, and that involves a lot of change, and transformation, there are always going to be people who are going to be critical. And progress, not perfection. One of my favorite phrases just being committing to progress and not having to be perfect. There’s none of us. No company is, so.

Brittany Angelo:
Yeah. Yeah, I hear that. All right. Well, Maria, thank you so much for joining us today. I learned so much from you, and I think this was a really fun conversation, so thank you. I appreciate you coming on.

Maria Kingery:
Of course, Brittany. I appreciate you having me, and I look forward to us connecting again in the future, I’m sure.

Brittany Angelo:
Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Maria Kingery:
Sometimes in unexpected ways, our paths stand across, which is really cool.

Benn Marine:
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