In this episode Rebecca Hamilton, co-CEO of the family owned and operated B Corp certified Badger Balm shares with us the origin story of the certified cruelty free family owned business and shares ways that business can support workers and community in some really creative and thoughtful ways.
This is a video that goes more in depth about the importance of the ability for parents to bring their kiddos to work.
Visit Badger Balm’s Website
Rebecca Hamilton [0:02]
If we’re going to allow one mother to bring their baby to work, how can we create a sustaining program that would allow any mother or any father to bring their baby to work?
Benn Marine [0:16]
This is Responsibly Different sharing stories of certified B corporations and our journey of joining them and leveraging business as a force for good.
I’m Ben Marine. In this episode, Rebecca Hamilton, co-CEO of the family owned and operated B Corp certified Badger Balm shares with us her journey with the family business and some of the really exciting ways Badger Balm is supporting families and their workers through some of their incredible benefits and support systems. Badger Balm is also certified cruelty free and creates safe and environmentally friendly products including sunscreen, bug spray, muscle and joint care, face care, lip care, sleep care, hair care and so much more. They also have a really cool origin story and are definitely responsibly different. To kick us off, Rebecca, I know Badger Balm is a family owned and run company started by your Dad, can you share with us a little bit about the story of how Badger Balm came to be?
Rebecca Hamilton [1:26]
Yeah, of course. Well, my father has always been a bit of a serial entrepreneur. So he had probably a different business idea, several times a day. Most of them never went anywhere, but a lot of them became businesses. So before Badger at that time, he had a business he was a contractor and his business was called White Light Builders. And he built healthy non-toxic houses for people who had allergies or sensitivities and couldn’t live in homes with some of the more modern high VOC finishes in paint. And as a carpenter out in New England, he would get very cracked hands in the winter. And so for many people who have cracked hands, you go to the store, you get a lotion or something like that. And for him, he didn’t find anything that really worked well for him and for his cracked hands. And so his his first step was to start using olive oil soaked socks and sleeping with those at night with shopping bags wrapped around it to keep the oil in. And those crinkled at night, and my mother at some point just said, you know, this is pathetic, you can do better. And so being a serial entrepreneur, he started thinking about a business opportunity. That if he was a carpenter with cracked hands, that couldn’t find something that works, there are other carpenters with cracked hands. And he needed to create some kind of a balm or salve that could heal his hands. And so that was kind of the origin of Badger, is that he created a simple beeswax olive oil balm that he could use without shopping bags. And they healed the cracks in his hands, and so he started looking at how to turn that into a business.
Benn Marine [3:11]
That’s so awesome. I’m curious, do you have any memories from that time when your dad was first kind of starting to tinker with creating the balm?
Rebecca Hamilton [3:18]
Oh, yeah, I mean, so this is probably when I was in middle school. And he was making olive oil and beeswax blends on the stove in a little pan, pots and pans on the stove in our kitchen. And so he was tinkering around with that. And I think before it became a business, he actually created a product that really works. And then bought a $500 vat to fill products into tins because they wanted to turn into a business. And that just kind of sat around for a year. And that was a lot of money for us at that time. And until again, my mother who I think you’ll, you’ll see this throughout that. My father is very much an entrepreneur, my mother is very much an action oriented person, she kind of pushed him to move forward and, and turn it into the business that he’s been inspired to originally.
Benn Marine [4:13]
That’s great. Sounds like a great team.
Rebecca Hamilton [4:16]
Benn Marine [4:17]
So, how did Badger go from being that solution to chapped hands, all the way to being a leader in sustainability and promoting a healthy work environment because it’s a huge like, you know, as you said, like your dad’s an entrepreneur is to solve business problems is one thing, but then to become this advocate and ambassador feels like a whole nother thing. How, how did that evolution take place?
Rebecca Hamilton [4:39]
Well, I think that, Badger being very much a family driven business, the business values are shaped by the values of my family. And so while the original business was really just how do we solve the problem of cracked hands and kind of the excitement of turning that into this business, and seeing if there are other people who have the same need. As the business grew, we were really thinking about what are our values as individuals or family members? And how do we infuse those into the business? And so, it started out with little things. Like as you bring in employees, you know, wanting to treat the employees like family and how do you treat them with kindness and respect. And then as we grew into a much larger company, those values had to turn into actual systems and procedures that lead to an equitable business. A big part of that was actually becoming a certified B Corp. Back in 2011.
Benn Marine [5:45]
How did you guys hear about becoming a B Corp?
Rebecca Hamilton [5:48]
Well, at the time we were still in our original building, so Badger went from something that we were making in our kitchen to literally purchasing or renting or garage that we manufactured products and having a house that we transformed into offices, to having this vision to build a beautiful manufacturing facility, post and beam manufacturing facility. And we were going through a high growth period. And we built this new manufacturing facility during this high growth period. But we were also hiring a lot of new employees. And we recognized that we were at this critical turning point of seeing the possibility of the values that were just kind of living in the owners and the family and the leadership in the company. And that you could get mission scope creep as you grow. And we wanted to build our values into the DNA of the business in a way that we could grow as large as we wanted to, but have those values really ingrained in everything that we’re doing with a business. And so we discovered the B Corps as really at first, it was just an opportunity to use the impact assessment to measure our impact and to figure out ways that we could cauterize the values and have them be long lasting. But after taking the impact assessment and seeing how valuable that was, we decided to become a certified B Corp and really lean into that whole process and that whole larger community of mission driven businesses.
Benn Marine [7:25]
That is so cool, I’m curious kind of backing up a little bit. Kind of back to that, though, a lot of the impacts that Badger has had, I know that you’ve done quite a bit of advocacy surrounding the environment, ingredient transparency and creating societal change, including speaking at the White House, the UN and testifying before Congress. Can you share with us a little bit about what your story in advocacy has been and an ongoing advocacy work that you’re involved with?
Rebecca Hamilton [7:52]
I took a little while before I went to college. So when I was younger, I didn’t have any vision of coming back to work for the family company. For a number of years, I worked on sailboats in the Caribbean and eventually went to college out in Hawaii, University of Hawaii to study ethnobotany. And I had these visions of traveling around the world and potentially working with medicinal plants. And through that process, I started becoming connected with this idea of working for my family’s company and working in personal care. And so I came back to the University of Massachusetts, and I enrolled in a program there called Citizen Scholar Program, which is really a training program for activism. And what I was really inspired by was this idea of how do you use business as a force for good, that business doesn’t have to be kind of the evil empire, that in this day and age, a lot of the positive change that can happen in the world can happen through business, so I was really curious to learn how we could use our business as a vehicle for activism and for promoting change. And so coming into Badger, I came in with a very strong value set, that I wanted to use our business as a means towards advocacy platform for things that we believed in things that were mission driven for Badger, so that we were both looking internally at how we can change our internal practices to be a good community driver to treat our employees really well. But also to have a larger platform out in the world where we could advocate for for things that are mission aligned.
Benn Marine [9:35]
And how did how did that, how did that bring you to like the White House and the UN and, and testifying before Congress, even those those all feel so huge? I mean, I think about I mean, I know just even for myself, I’ve done a lot of activism work and and have never, have never gone to those places.
Rebecca Hamilton [9:55]
Well, I think that it starts with Badger at our core, being a business is trying to do something positive in the world. And so we first and foremost want to be a leader by our actions. And we’re trying to do progressive things and demonstrate the ways in which businesses can be a force for good either through our environmental actions or through our community engagement or through innovative ways that we work with our employees. And by really, demonstrating the power of business as a force for good we get recognized on a larger scale. And that leads us to be invited by our senators or congressmen or by other advocacy groups that are looking for a business voice to support their platform. And, and the truth is part of the reason why I think it’s so important for businesses to have a positive voice that oftentimes, the business voice is contrary to the advocacy groups that are advocating for, for social and environmental change, and so we wanted to be a business voices advocating on behalf of those groups. And so that that gives us a really important voice.
Benn Marine [11:16]
That was really cool. And, and, and kudos to you all, because I think you’re absolutely right. Like it’s so huge and so important, for sure. And I know so in addition to that, I know Badger is doing some really cool stuff in the worker department too, you all have paid health days, a garden Children’s Center for employees kiddos, babies at work, how did how did all that get started?
Rebecca Hamilton [11:36]
I think it goes back to the original philosophy that I talked about, which is that we want to treat our employees with kindness and respect. And so if you have that intention, then each time something comes up, you ask the question of what is the kind of respectful way that we can approach this in a way that also supports our business. So we’re really looking at each thing that comes up through that lens. And so for babies at work, it’s just the mother coming in and saying, I’d like to bring my baby to work. And at that point, we could have either just said, yes, sure you can bring your baby to work. Or we could have said no. But what we did, and this is I would attribute this to my mother’s influence, because she’s very much a systems and process oriented person who thinks very deeply about things. And her response was to say, yes, and if we’re going to allow one mother to bring their baby to work, how can we create a sustaining program that would allow any mother or any father to bring their baby to work in a way that is supportive for them, that is healthy for the child, and that works for the work environment. And so a lot of the things that we have as a company have come from one employee requesting a benefit, and then us doing the work to figure out how we can actually make it work for the business and, and all employees going forward.
Benn Marine [12:54]
In finding those solutions for how to implement those are there resources that you leaned on that others folks might find helpful as well, in terms of, you know, trying to implement some of the same policies.
Rebecca Hamilton [13:05]
Yeah, so we’ve taken a lot of family friendly practices as a really big platform for us. And this is in part again, my mother was a teacher for about 25 years. That’s where her background is before she came and joined Badger. And she worked with an expert in the area that focuses on how to create babies at work programs. And when we created the childcare center, she worked with a lot of specialists and that to create that program. Right now Badger is a resource that other companies can come to. We work with Impact Monadnock, and part of our work with that is specifically to provide resources for other businesses that want to implement family friendly workplace practices.
Benn Marine [13:51]
That is so cool, and for folks that are listening in and want to implement maybe some of those policies and also I mean, you guys have a wide breadth of incredible, incredible, incredible benefits. And I’ll make sure to list them in the show notes. But for folks that are thinking like, Oh, I really want to, like, you know, start implementing these things. Are there certain policies that you found easier to implement? Or do you have advice for where folks would get started in maybe taking baby steps to start integrating those pieces?
Rebecca Hamilton [14:21]
I think that the creating a program for allowing parents to bring their baby to work is one of the most powerful and also most accessible thing that a business can do. Because it doesn’t take a lot of financial resources. It takes a certain amount of flexibility and a certain amount of really thoughtfully working with the parents and with the business structure. But the the ability for a parent to spend that for six months with their child, while continuing to have their career and their job is just, it’s it’s not quantifiable, and I I think a lot of our parents have felt that that’s one of the most important things that we offer. I think a lot of the other programs are more of a financial backing I would say. And, and there are other ones that I think are equally important, and are particularly important for those who don’t have children. But that one, I think, is one that I would recommend any business exploring. And then the other thing I would say is, every business is different. So you might be in a business where bringing a baby to work just simply doesn’t work. But if you start with this idea of, we want to create a community where we’re treating our employees with kindness and respect. There’s all sorts of little things that you can do when you have that intention. And if you’re looking at your business in terms of having long term health and success, then a lot of the choices that you’ll make might be different than if you’re looking for short term health and success. So all of these things well, having a baby at work might make a parent a little bit more distracted during that time period, they are going to be a lot more focused in the long run.
Benn Marine [16:07]
That makes a lot of sense. And sounds like a really great investment to of the company for also retaining workers. Right?
Rebecca Hamilton [16:15]
Benn Marine [16:17]
Looking back kind of over the the journey of Badger, what have been maybe some of the highlights some of your your kind of favorite or proudest moments?
Rebecca Hamilton [16:26]
Wow, that’s a good question. Well, I would say in terms of the things that we offer, one of the things that I’m most proud of is our lunch program. And I would say that it’s a combination of when we moved into this new building, we have a beautiful wooden post and beam building and being able to share lunches, beautiful organic lunches with all the employees makes coming to work every day worth while. That experience and the community that it builds and being able to offer that to employees, I think it’s something that I’m incredibly proud of.
Benn Marine [17:09]
So is that free lunch for all the employees?
Rebecca Hamilton [17:12]
Benn Marine [17:12]
Oh, cool. That is really cool.
Rebecca Hamilton [17:15]
Yeah, we have an onsite cook, two on-site cooks that provide the organic lunch every day. We have a dining hall that people eat in, either that, or outdoors.
Benn Marine [17:26]
Oh my gosh, that’s amazing.
Rebecca Hamilton [17:28]
And, and gardens on site and a meditation, Labyrinth and gym on site. I mean, it’s really like a little bit like a summer camp in our layout, but people work really hard. So not not to say that it’s utopian, but it is there, it’s quite lovely to work there. I think the other thing that I’m really proud of is the products that we’ve created. We have a lot of intention that we put into each product that we create and each ingredient that we have, that we choose, and I think our our teams at Badger are really proud of the products as well, and that shows the quality of what we create. And I think that we’ve been able to, we had set out a while back to make something that is really, truly needed, and also that we do as good or better than anyone else. And I think our sunscreens, and all of our products really are an example. They’re, they’re, I think our sunscreens in particular are ones that there’s a critical need to have safe sunscreen. And we’ve just done a lot of work on trying to figure out how to make the safest and simplest sunscreen. I think that our product is, really, I’m very proud of it. I of course, I ran product development for a number of years before joining my sister as co-CEO. So I’m particularly attached to the product.
Benn Marine [19:03]
Yeah, and I think what’s really cool about your sunscreen too is it’s not just safe for the for the body but also safe for for reefs, right? It’s, it’s safe for the environment as well.
Rebecca Hamilton [19:11]
Yeah, yeah, and most of our sunscreens only have a base of four or five ingredients. So they’re incredibly simple. And they’re deceptively simple. They’re very hard to make. But really simple ingredients, you know, taking a lot of time to find just the right balance of those ingredients to create a product that’s really effective and safe for the environment and safe for people. And even for children and babies.
Benn Marine [19:39]
That is so cool. Circling back a little bit to your B Corp certification. Once the decision was made to go for B Corp status, were there areas where you needed to make some drastic improvements on in order to be certified or what kind of what were some of the big learns that came out of your B Corp certification process?
Rebecca Hamilton [19:59]
Well, I think when we started looking at the B Corp certification, we were at a stage in our business where we had just written our first mission. And we had all these aspirations of things that we wanted to do in terms of how we were going to be a sustainable business or a mission driven business. But the truth was at the time, we hadn’t built them into the DNA of the business. We didn’t have systems and procedures that ensured that we actually follow through on those aspirations. And so becoming a B Corp is really the difference between having a mission that you talk about and having a mission that live and breathe in every aspect of the business. And that took some work. So our I think our first B Corp score was just barely over 80, which is the minimum score you needed to certify. And we were kind of appalled, it’s like we thought of ourselves as much better than that. And we realized that the problem that we had was that we couldn’t actually demonstrate that we were doing the things that we said we wanted to do and there was a little bit of a gray area between our aspirations and our actions. And so it took us quite a few years to really go through every aspect of our business and ensure that we were actually following through on the things that we aspired to.
Benn Marine [21:18]
That’s it. Yeah. Now, I think you guys have a B impact score of 141.2, which is incredible. What did it take to get from 80 to 141.2?
Rebecca Hamilton [21:32]
Well, it’s, for one thing, we had to dedicate a lot of resources toward it. But it didn’t feel like a financial drain because being a mission driven business, those are resources that we were dedicated for being a better business, so we didn’t see it as specifically toward improving our score, but rather improving our business. And good taking the gap analysis from the impact assessment, which basically shows the gap between what you are doing well and what you’re not doing well, and where you have room for improvement. And we started bringing that into our strategic planning every year and setting up those improvements as part of our, our strategy for the upcoming year. So we would divvy it up between amongst the departments, and have every department have that as a core initiative there to try and make improvements.
Benn Marine [22:25]
Oh, that’s a really cool way of kind of dispersing the the workload a bit. I like that. What, so what have been some of your most rewarding experiences as a B Corp?
Rebecca Hamilton [22:36]
Well, I think when we first became a B Corp, we were just looking at the impact assessment and becoming a B Corp, you have to score a certain amount on the impact assessment which really looking at every aspect of your business. You have to, if you have the option of incorporating as a benefit Corp, so change or incorporate to include your social environment mission, then you do that, which we didn’t have that option at first. But we work with the State of New Hampshire to get legislation passed, so that we could incorporate as a benefit Corp. But the third thing that required in becoming a B Corp is to sign a declaration of interdependence, saying that you’re part of a larger system of mission driven businesses, and that our ultimate goal is to create a new sector of the economy, where business is a force for good. And so for the first several years, we just kind of worked on the impact assessment and didn’t tap into community. And I think in 2012, maybe it was only a year or so after we became a certified B Corp, we went out and joined the retreat of B Corps. And we had an opportunity to meet this incredible collection of other mission driven businesses and realized that the power of being a certified B Corp was not so much in the impact assessment, although that’s critical and important, but in building a community of like minded businesses that want to work together to be a force for good. And that actually leads back to some of the opportunities that I had in in being able to speak at the White House, for instance, was going along with a group of other B Corps who are joining together to have a larger voice and advocate for for positive social environmental change.
Benn Marine [24:36]
That is so cool. So are there other B Corps that you partner with regularly or that you kind of lean on for maybe as like thought leaders or or like kind of ideas or anything like that?
Rebecca Hamilton [24:48]
Yeah, yeah. Well, I would say I’ve got two categories that I lean on most heavily. I’ve got my, my regional New England B Corps and we actually get together as a New England group and and create our own little conferences to learn from each other and share best practices. And so that’s been really rewarding and they’re B Corps you know within a couple hours that I’ve gone to visit their facility and learn from them. And then I have the B Corps that are in my industry that I lean on, so the like minded sunscreen companies that are B Corps or personal care companies that are B Corps that I really admire. And, and we’re actually in the same industry and in, in many other industries outside of the B Corp community, you’d be competitors. And instead, I find that we’re we’re able to share best practices in a way that creates competitive collaboration.
Benn Marine [25:46]
That’s neat, too, because in that way, instead of being competitive and secretive in that ability to share, it ends up lifting both of you up right?
Rebecca Hamilton [25:56]
Right. So I would, you know, much rather see another B Corp mission driven company compete with me on the shelf, than one that wasn’t values aligned. So if I have an opportunity to support that business, you know, there’s going to be competitors when we live in a marketplace, and there’s going to be more than one option. And that’s good. That’s important. And so I feel like if, if we’re doing our job in product development, and we genuinely have products that are needed, and that have unique selling propositions, then there’s space for both of us. And so then there’s no reason to try and push another brand out. It’s just to continue to make sure that we have differentiated products that can stand on their own.
Benn Marine [26:39]
What does the future look like? What kind of goals do you have your sights set on for Badger and also for your B Corp status?
Rebecca Hamilton [26:47]
Well, I continue to hope that our B Corp status increases. Again, not just for the score, but because it means that we’re improving as a business and we’re doing better and there’s always room for improvement. In terms of our business, it’s, you know, I, I’m really driven by the impact that we can have as a business. That’s what I’m excited about. That’s why I came back to Badger and being a family driven business, we have the freedom to do that. And so I look at Badger first and foremost, mission driven business. We happen to make personal care products, and we do really well at it, we could be making any number of other products. What’s most important to me is that I’m working in a business that I feel good about that I am inspired by. So I would love to continue to grow as a business. But I want to grow in a way that deepens our mission. That’s what I’m really inspired by on a purely tactical level, I think given where we are with the recent pandemic, where we are with the economy, and where sales are going, we are looking at a shift from brick and mortar sales into more direct to our customer sales on our website and online. And so I think that in the next two years, we are definitely going to be focusing on how do we connect more directly with our end customer and how do we share our brand more directly? And our brand story.
Benn Marine [28:25]
Can people order directly off the website now if they wanted to?
Rebecca Hamilton [28:29]
Benn Marine [28:30]
Kind of To that end, speaking of kind of thinking forward and, you know, the partnerships you’ve had with B Corps in the past, do you have B Corps that you’re inspired by or that you look to for inspiration?
Rebecca Hamilton [28:44]
Yeah, I think that when I look at the B Corps that I’m most inspired by the, the ones that are really strongly activist or advocacy based organizations like Patagonia and Dr. Bronner’s, and Ben and Jerry’s, and Seventh Generation, a lot of those brands that are out there and, and really vocally supporting the things that they believe in. And those are ones that are quite a bit larger than Badger, but feel very kindred in, in what they’re doing. And I think Patagonia and Dr. Bronner’s in particular, because they’re both still family-owned, which is rare as a business grows. And so that’s really inspiring to see those larger businesses that have maintained that ownership.
Benn Marine [29:31]
Has has growth in the business made living into those values more challenging, or have you found that kind of the the guardrails provided by B Corp have helped kind of steer the ship?
Rebecca Hamilton [29:46]
I would say both. I think that as we grow, we get more pressure to create products that are either at a lower price point or more accessible and and we you know, that’s, that’s a real legitimate question for us. Because we want our products to be accessible at a lower price point. And we want to maintain our quality and our value. We don’t prestige price. And so there’s always really this question of how do we make our products as accessible as possible as we grow into wider markets? And how do we continue to have the really rigorous quality values that have made us the brand that we are right now? So I think that’s, that’s a constant balance.
Benn Marine [30:30]
Yeah. And what advice would you have for other businesses that are thinking about becoming a B Corp?
Rebecca Hamilton [30:37]
I think it’s one of the best things that we’ve ever done. And it is because it helps to give us structure for how we can make improvements. It gave us a common vision for what it means to be a mission driven business so that we could have those conversations with other businesses. It provided us with a incredible community of like-minded businesses that we could tap into, to learn and grow from, which for a small business is really critical. You know, if you’re a multinational business, you can ask questions of your current company or your sister companies. They’re all you have a huge network. But as a small company, we actually rely on asking, I guess, our competitors or other people in industry, when we have challenging questions, and I’ve never met a more receptive community of businesses to supporting each other and growing together than the B Corp community. And so I think that’s been incredibly valuable to us.
Benn Marine [31:40]
Awesome. Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much, Rebecca. Is there anything else that you want to add or make sure folks know about?
Rebecca Hamilton [31:46]
One little exciting aside is that we are just in the last days of installing 1400 panels solar ground and roof mount solar array at Badger. So we’re gonna be flipping the switch and going to full solar power in a couple weeks, which is kind of a first step for us toward our our goal of becoming a net zero business by 2030. So that’s net zero for all of our emissions. By mid July, we will have zero emissions for our actual manufacturing facility. That will be fully solar, solar-based.
Benn Marine [32:29]
Oh my gosh, that’s incredible. And actually, if I remember, right, I think you guys went through ReVision Energy, right, because they had mentioned that they were really excited about you guys going solar.
Rebecca Hamilton [32:39]
Yeah. Partner B Corp.
Benn Marine [32:41]
Yes. Yes. Love that. And, and actually, that brings up another thing, too. They had mentioned that, that you guys had actually that your dad had helped actually build that building? Is that right?
Rebecca Hamilton [32:54]
Yeah. Yeah. My dad designed our manufacturing facility and was the General Contractor on part of it. But he he’s been very much involved in all of our buildings. This is kind of him going back to his roots of being a carpenter contractor. So he’s currently retired, teaches akido and, and paints out with his goats and chickens. But when we have a new building, we’re actually working on a new addition right now, he comes out of retirement to to run the whole project. So he’s, he’s quite, quite incredible with that. And then my mother, like I said, has been an incredible force in in our growing our whole community. And so my sister and I are, are very lucky to have that family support. And I think that’s what allowed us to do a lot of things as a business, to have kind of all four of us being able to work together.
Benn Marine [33:59]
Thank you so much for joining us. Definitely check out Badger Balm’s website at Badger Balm.com, as always have all the links in the show notes which you can find at responsibly different dot com. If you’re enjoying this podcast be sure to subscribe wherever you listen and leave us a review. A quick update on our B Corp journey. We recently reached out to B Labs to make sure I set us up on the right track with the assessment because the assessment changes based on how you set up your account. As we learned with Dr. Fiona Wilson in Episode Three, there are over 70 different iterations of the B Corp assessment all based on how you answer some of those preliminary questions. We discovered in doing this that I had us under the wrong size classification. I had us in the 10 to 50 size category because we are a team of 10 people. However, the way that B labs defines full time and the size of your organization is based on what they call full time equivalency. And we define full time as in order to be eligible for benefits at averaging 30 hours or more. Where B labs defines it as averaging 37 hours or more. So all that being said, when I recalculated our full time equivalency, it put us in the small business bracket, which is less than 10 people on the team. So that’s changing how our assessment looks. We’re also going to try a new structure with our committee which is essentially dividing the work by tracking and policy recommendations. We’re still working on ironing that out, so more information on that to come in the next episode.
We’re all in this together. Till next time, be responsibly different.
This is a production of Dirigo Collective. Music composed by our own Kevin Oates. You can follow us on social media @ Dirigo Collective or visit our corner of the internet at Dirigo Collective.com.